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 Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.

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Spencer

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PostSubject: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:22 am

Goooood Ssssoullsssss mysss brothersss an' ssisstersss an' any mortallssss reading thisss may vysss like to become one of uss one day.


I have been with UND off and on since 07' I think and on various shards. Hybrid is the first shard I joined UND on and Divinity was the most active branch for me. During those years I have noticed that UND 'official' forums have been changed several times and this board was the last one to my mind, though I am sure I have seen another forum few months ago. I have also witnessed frequent guild inactivity compared to that of Yew Militia or Orcish clans. While UND certainly had (and continues to have) its golden days on various shards and at different times, the overall guilds activity and rating were quickly falling while Yew's and Orcish ones were always relatively higher. Don't get me wrong, both Orcs (Shadown- Blood- and Bloodrock) and Yew Militia are all great guild with stunning RP skills and great organization, UND has always been my favorite in terms of RP and its course of actions/policy. However, as all of you know, most of us usually prefer to play as orcs (or Yewians) while still having/training our UND chars on most shards, or even turning the guild stone up which usually ends up being dead and inactive. I don't say it is the case on all the shards. IPY 2 was great in terms of our activity, though I barely played IPY 2 due to the lack of time and real life stuff.

So now I decided to start this thread so as to think on the issues which might actually cause the inactivity (or limited activity) of our clan and possibly solve that problem in the upcoming IPY 3. I really hope to form the great clan once again with all of you on that project and I know I will be playing there. I am glad that this forum is active so at least I won't be talking to myself :)Let's reincarnate UND once again! Twisted Evil  Here are the issues which I think affect UND in the negative way. Note that this is solely just my opinion and the purpose of this thread is nothing but cooperation.


1. Disorganized clan structure. Varies from leader to leader

I have noticed that UND lacks the clear and stable clan structure, something Orcs and Yew have, which results in [UND] being just an abbreviation rather than a stable organized structure on most shards. In case of Orcish clans or Yew, I have noticed that no matter where they (officially, with approval from the guild elders) start on, they have the same copy/paste clan structure on any shard, which might only vary slightly depending on the shards ruleset. For instance, I know that back on Rebirth mojo urks were allowed to use gnarled staves and macing skills for combat combination, but overall these RP guilds use highly effective and stable organization structure every time they start a new branch. In case of UND it's quite a bit different. When UND started back on Divinity years ago (shortly before Div 2.0) it was just me and Nethru working on the keep which was later placed in Yew clearing. Nethru said the UND 'in that time' will have the old Catskills/OSI ruleset the guild used ages ago, which is just bone-like undead (skeletons and bone mages forming the clan roster). On Hybrid, however, it was different. I am sure ghouls and Vampires were also allowed in the guild ranks. I also remember the old (now probably inactive) UOGamers RP forum with UND guild information on it and it also contained ghouls and some other 'undead races'. Myself I have been roleplaying as a vampire with that character for the most of my UND career on different shards.

The problem I see here is the fact that UND is more of the abbreviation on most shards it starts on, but besides that it is always a new guild, which could have created confusion for both old clan members and the newcomers. The leaders were also different in various times. On Divinity Nethru was the only Ancient One running the guild among with a few high ranking clan elders, while on Hybrid, I believe, it was Bramos. So the guild ranks, structure, policy is always different and varies from leader to leader. I believe I also remember the situations when UND was formed by low ranking members without any approval from elders and created their own structure under the title of The Undead (I think it was the case on Rel Por). While it can be the case with any guild, and certainly has its benefits as while the [UND] is continuously being created, it lives. But then again, does not it create the confusion on 'what exactly is UND'? The clan of undeads, vampires, of what? What kind of clothes shall the unborns wear? What kind of clothes/hues shall high ranked members wear? How are the resources being distributed among the family?

Some of you might also remember that during Divinity there were two major Undead guilds. One was official UND, the one me and Nethru have been working on shortly before Div 2.0 popped out, and the one was made by the former UND member. Can't recall his name, he was a great role player. Another guild was located at the Clearing of Love just near the Lich spawn in Yew, it had a tower and houses inside the clearing, while UND keep remained in the same clearing north of orc fort. Later on two guilds were united, which actually turned into the collapse of UND on Divinity. Now I don't claim that the collapse happened due to poor leadership. Both Nethru and another guildmaster were quite active and reasonable leaders, but the structure of another guild was vastly different from the UND, it actually had zombies and the like stuff in it, which I believe, was the problem why we did not stand a chance against Yew, though we had some great battles several times. Here's the topic on it btw: http://undead.darkbb.com/t21-merge-with-vii

In order to solve this issue I suggest the following:

a) Roll call of all active (and possible future come-backers) of members of UND and most important, the active leaders/high ranked members. I am not sure who is still active as I haven't been playing UO in a while, but will surely come back once IPY 3 is up. I think the rank should now depend on how much one has contributed for the family as well as the overall activity with the clan. Nethru has put that forum up, as far as I remember, he was also running several UND branches and I had a lot of fun playing with him. Basically, we have to form and announce the new Ancient One (or whatever he will now be called) and the Council of Elders (or whatever it will be called). This way we will have the clear commission of elders, something the Orcs and Yewians have, which will deal with all the clan problems as well as give approval for the new branches thus there will be no confusion (or almost no) in case yet another [UND] will be ran by completely unknown members.

b) Create a strict, clear and stable clan structure. Ranks, storyline information, language, races allowed in the clan, dress code, initiation rules and ceremonies - basically everything related to the guild structure. This way we will have that clear basis which might then be easily 'copy/pasted' on any new branch UND is starting on and will now be the one and only UND without any vast structure differences and confusion depending on the preferences of the current leader (stone holder) etc. I also believe that this will prevent other und-like guilds to form as the main structure and activity would be concentrated around the UND, thus there will be less member split.

2. Language of the Undead

I can barely remember most of the words myself. I know there was a some kind of und dictionary written on the old UOG RP forum, but over than that I can't really find it anymore. If any of you remember some of the UND vocabulary we should create the thread for it. But before we have to, imo, organize the structure first as it will state what types of races are we allowing in the clan, thus the language of boney creatures (classic undead) and ghouls or vampires can be different. Myself, I remember the 'vyss, mysss and other 'sssss' was explained to me as the fact the undead have rotten tongues, though classic vampires should not have them, at least if they are fed, so they can as well speak as mortals, just in old fashioned English Smile 

After forming the language, there will be no confusion on how exactly the und member has to speak, therefore we might even make tests, the kind of Bloodclan orcs use for the application so as to initiate members, who are more, or less familiar with RP'ing as an undead, rather than make a mass guild. However, due to low amount of active UND members, I don't see anything wrong with mass recruitment as long as it is moderated and all the members are following RP ROE and guild rules.

3. What is Bluudgud?

As far as I know the Bloodclan orcs worship the same Guardian as we, the Undead do, they just call him Bluudgud.

Here's the detailed information on what or who exactly is the Guarian, according to official Ultima storyline:

http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian

We could either use this information, or form our own based on our storyline. Why I think it is important? This way we can clearly distinguish between the Orcish god of Blood and the Guardian, in case I am wrong with what was explained to me years ago to be the same thing and in case BC has another vision on how their beliefs were formed. If the UND will have clear storyline it will be easier to form an active guild rather than being something unknown. While there certainly has to be some shadow basis for our guild to keep our knowledge and origin in secret, the clear structure and storyline would provide us with a more organized basis and would make UND look more promising for incoming new members. It will also neutralize the possible confusion between the Guardian and other 'gods'.

4. Crafters place in the ranks of the Undead


Another point of what to my mind makes the Undead considerably weaker compared to the orcs or yewians is how craftsmen are being treated. While orcish makr's and weaponsmiths in Yew are clearly treated as full members their guilds, we treat them as slaves and do not allow any career inside the guild ranks. I think they are not even being 'made' and initiated as the undead and remain slave mortals.

While it may not be a big problems considering that most craft characters are merely but alts and are being switched constantly between the main characters, there are still some players (including roleplayers) in UO who actually enjoy playing as a trade/craftsmen. Obviously these types of players will not be interested in UND as they would be treated here as a pile of crap and free labor. Imo, we could add something for crafting benefits of the guild so as to create the strong soul armory/alchemy laboratory for us as we often lack the necessary equipment for a good PvP.


These are the main issues which come to my mind as of right now. Please let me know what you think of this and let's ressurect UND once again for upcoming IPY 3 blast! Feel free to add your own points why do YOU think UND has been considerably weakened in the last few years.

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FOR THE GUARDIAN!!
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Ajar Deathstrike



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:39 pm

I will be there to answer the call. I will also email Darkness when the time comes to twist his arm.

I agree on a strict clan ruleset. Catskills was always the epitome for this, and it is familiar to me, so whichever we choose to adopt is totally cool.


Castes I remember are:

Magii
Shadow Archer
Bone Warrior
Nightmare

And there were a couple exceptions, like Necromancer, Zombie, etc etc. Adopting a caste system like this would promote structure, along with the ranking system. The one I remember as:

Unborn
Bone Warrior/ShadowArcher/Nightmare/Magii
Warrior/Archer/Nightmare/Magi/Unborn Captain
Ancient One
Sect (retirees)

Again, its been since 2003 since Ive been involved in any way. I am definitely going to support whatever you folks deem best, and provide whatever assistance I can along the way.


Activity limitations:

- Im a full time working Dad, so my playtime is limited to casual level, 5-15 hours a week.

- Im also into competitive fitness, so this may also vary my playtime as stated above.


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Chance-



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Spencer, I was just about to make a similar post here, although I'm sure I would not have been able to word it as well as you did.  I think you really nailed a lot of issues on the head, and did so in a constructive and positive manner.  Kudos!

I'm interested in getting my foot back in the door with UND on IPY3.

Quote :
1. Disorganized clan structure. Varies from leader to leader

I agree with basically every point you hit here.  I personally like the "oldschool" caste / rules from Catskills era - much more strict but helped to better define roles and helped give the guild a stronger identity overall.

Quote :
a) Roll call

Sign me up!

On Catskills I think I made it as far as Magi, or whatever the next rank above Unborn was.  Siege Perilous I was not really in UND for very long & the account was deactivated for a long time (mostly played my Orc[s]).  Angel Island... hard to remember, again was more active on my Orc characters.  I'll happily enter the ranks as an Unborn.  I'm interested in having a bone warrior and/or skeletal archer as well as a magic-wielder (Chance de Morgue).

Quote :
b) Create a strict, clear and stable clan structure.

This, 1000x over.

Ajar is pretty well on point as far as I can recall when it comes to Castes and Ranks.

One thing that I think needs to be considered is where do less "traditional" Undead characters like Bards, Tamers, and Thieves fit in?  In my opinion, we really want to give folks every opportunity to play within the guild structure regardless of what type of character they want to play (within reason and RP "sense", of course).

Quote :
2. Language of the Undead

Will have to do some digging around.  I was never really all that great with Undead language, to be honest.

Quote :
3. What is Bluudgud the Guardian?

I'd really like to see the Undead on IPY3 be as independent as possible, even if others do worship the same Deity as we do.  Call him the Wargod, the Bloodgod, or whatever you wish - he is the Guardian and we are working to harvest Souls for him!  Allies are great, and I've enjoyed RPing an Orc off and on for over a decade now, but it would be really awesome to have our own strong identity on IPY3.
/end ranting

A clear story and lore to present on the forums and spread through interaction in game would be awesome and attract potential recruits.

Quote :
4. Crafters place in the ranks of the Undead

Great point, and one that I sort of touched on briefly above when talking about Tamers, Bards, etc (who, if I'm not mistaken, I have seen as "Slave" in the past as well).  I guess a lot of this depends on the actual priority the character has to the particular player.

As for crafters:

- Perhaps upon Grandmastery of a Trade skill, the Slave could achieve a different, skill related-title (Sort of like Unborn -> Bone Warrior ... Slave -> Alchemist, etc)

- Players could perhaps earn some sort of rank / privilege / etc with their Slave character that could be utilized on their "Full Undead" character.  Not sure what fits here, but basically earning perks of some sort (uniform?  house/storage access? consideration for promotion?).

- Instead of "Slave", maybe we come up with a new title such as Subjugated, Brainwashed, Mind-Slave, Servant, or something that indicates they are being "mind controlled".  

Not all are fit to harvest souls for the Guardian, for one reason or another, and these wretches become the Subjugated of the Undead.

Honestly, Slave works fine for me, but I understand where you're coming from and the word also has a lot of negative connotations associated with it in our ever-increasing PC culture (surprised OSI did not ban for use of Slave as guild title!).


So, anyway, I've been typing on this post off and on for a few hours now, time to rest my weary bones.  I got into IPY3 beta last weekend and was honestly just sort of ho-hum about it until I pulled these forums up earlier this eve.  My mind is full of thoughts now... and the last of which is:

Is OCB in for sure?  If so, are we going to OCB? Will we be looking to call Cove home?  I like it, myself: Great town with Fort/G yard nearby & Covetous dungeon is nearby and would make a great place to haunt/patrol/defend!
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Bramos



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:22 am

Well yes and no.. I was a leader on Siege, Hybrid, Angel Island, somewhat with Divinty, Uo Forever etc. and for the most part I tried to keep it as similar to Siege as possible but at the same time allow for change also. I mean i've been playing this for what 20 years ? and some change has to occur. or 1 I never understood why Vampires had to talk like bone heads ? but yet it was the rule and I followed it and even when I was incharge I still talked that way. Think mostly out of habbit, anyway lately i've been trying to change my speech. Another problem I think with und is activity. On each of the shards I listed I could get a decent number to start but they would get bored and fade off. Seems hard to recruit new members, not sure if its the roleplay or rules we have that discourages them ? Guardian/Bloodgod/wargod.. probably to further our relations and reason why we work with the orcs. Most orcs liked or atleast accepted that ours gods were infact the same. I like it but can we dropped or modified. Classes and castes have varried greatly over the years. could get you a whole list if needed ? Colors have also varried, from the cily yellowish green to red/dark grey etc. I never played cats so not sure what or how it was there. Think I made myself and logged on their 1 time because their was some big event or something. Sorry for the rambling, just trying to respond to some of the things addressed here
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Mac

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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:31 am

Good points by All. It has encouraged me to add my 2 cents. I feel that it is okay to deviate some from shard to shard but a set of ideas for this shard would be nice.

UND past: I loved this post because in my estimation Undeads ONLY (heh) problem has been leadership. Not that we didn't have any, but that we had too much, and too many with different ideas. We also never rotated. I think some version of the orcs method (or on paper method lately) of possibly changing every 2-3 months would be good for the guild.

Preferences: I prefer the puke green robes at least for unborns. No one ever wanted to copy that so we were unique and easily identifiable. The rest, castes, etc, I have thoughts but will live with whatever you guys want to do. I will miss my bone magi armor from AI though (we had bone armor with leather properties).

Crafters/Humans: I liked the Priest class on Siege, or was that AI? I think they were humans, not undead, but as good posers (and habit) they often spoke with the lisp and in reverse speech. They were like support mages and I saw them as the guilds recruiters. I played Mac that way. I'm not sure how that fits with Cats lore, but what if priests and crafters were humans who want to see the Guardian win and our supporting his #1 team (us!). They aren't slaves but definitely defer to actual Undead creatures. Hell, who wouldn't? That's just good RP. Humans would come to learn that Priests were more RP than RPvP, at least when encountered alone. Not stuck to this, just throwing it out there for your consideration.

Lastly, who is running this shindig? That is the first thing we need to resolve. Ajar seemed to be giving the rally cry but seems to be too busy to run it. I will fall into that same boat as well.
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Bramos



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:17 pm

I'm sure we did Priests on Siege. I can go either way, slaves or humans siding with the winning side? I like the puke color for unborns but not full undead. I like uniforms and its nice when each class has them but then it also identifies us to enemies. Like if all mages wear robes and warrirors dont, then they all go after the robed ones.
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Bramos



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:18 pm

I'm sure we did Priests on Siege. I can go either way, slaves or humans siding with the winning side? I like the puke color for unborns but not full undead. I like uniforms and its nice when each class has them but then it also identifies us to enemies. Like if all mages wear robes and warrirors dont, then they all go after the robed ones.
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:31 pm

Thanks for replies ya'll, I am super glad to finally see some interest in launching the UND on the new upcoming shard. We will see how it will turn out. I hope to meet all of you on IPY 3 launch which is January 11 as we all know now! As of ranks and clan structure problem (are bards, tamers allowed? crafters place among the undead etc.), I have come with an idea of several branches or castes you name it. I will update this thread with some more information in the next few days, but as of now:

1. Military/Soul collecting branch (every fighter in the clan)

2. Ideological branch (Priests)

3. Labor branch

4. Unborns

5. Shadow branch ? (spies, thieves, stealth based characters for various purpose)

In other words a hierarchy of the Undead may consists of various castes which will be ran (ruled) by different leaders (clan Elders)


Basically, every race (human, classic undead or skeleton, vampires etc.) and class could be moved to an appropriate caste, thus lowering class/race/dress code confusions.

Every caste will have its ranks and structure while still being a part of the whole family, and will be loyal to the Ancient One

This, in turn, will make skill/task distribution easier. Most orcs are fighters. All of them have hiding, therefore there are no question asked in case they need to trap somebody, or do similar "orcish business". In case of the UND, we always had a wider range of professions. Usually there were several players of various classes in one team, which made interaction quite complicated (not always, but sometimes). For instance, farming liches in Yew. One player has hiding, another does not. In case a random PK comes, it would be more productive for them all to have hiding/ability to hide, however if only one of them has hiding, he will have to come out in order to help his fella to fight a pk since he will probably be targeted on sight. With a new structure we will be able to organize various play styles within a clan so that there will be less confusion on which tactics to use in different situations. Of course, in no way it mean those branches will interact apart, but having different play styles in various branches would definitely make it easier for us to organize our soul collecting festivities AND it will be easier for the new players as the information regarding the guild structure would be now more clear therefore we will be able to recruit more and introduce RP to even bigger amount of people.

I will be posting more information as I finish the chart soon, if the system will get approved by current elders then it's fine. Else, I am sure we will all still have fun on IPY3!
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Bramos



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:08 pm

Well I always have hiding, since I interact with the orcs alot and know they require it. in more recent times Ive also done stealth since I figured that is an ability that vampires would have. I am debating between stealth and parry at the moment but do like the stealth concept for my character. Another possible option for makers/tamers/non PVP characters is a 2nd guild ? I am sure IPY3 will have alliance chat so it wouldnt be like we couldnt keep in touch. The benefits are, more then likely enemies wouldnt attack or kill our makers if they are blue on a 2nd guild. Where as if they are on our main guild they will be considered fodder ? Also pretty much most versions of UND have had a must be red rule ? this way wouldnt have to force makers etc into being red or us having to have blues in the main guild ? ideas or thoughts ?
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Mac

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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:00 am

Having reviewed this further I really like Spencer's breakdown above. I would like to submit the following ideas for consideration and that only.

Group structures are good as is, but either head of each group gets a title. Maybe Harvester for main castes, High Priest for priests, Befouler for head crafter, and something for the shadow caste. In a setup like this I feel that only the main castes should ascend to become an Ancient One.

Perhaps when a new "Harvester" is chosen they can select the title to reflect their style as they will be responsible for many day to day interactions. Or maybe the Ancient One simply fills that role. If numbers are low probably best to start like that.

I'm okay with mixing blues and reds. Worked for us orcs on UOSA. Obviously warrior caste blues looked down on occasionally and expected to fight when enemies encountered.

I don't like 2 stones. I almost did but then other allies will be subject to our internal talks. This will annoy them eventually. We will lose things from time to time but at least we won't bank sit.

Last thought: what if the shadow caste wasn't in the stone? Unborns would not even know who was in it. In this way thieves and tamers could play there style normally but would be in place when needed. To avoid a spy caste these cars would be prohibited from joining any guildstone. PvM money comes to UND though, thieves target those we dispose, etc...

</Musings>
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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:22 am

I will be there. I only was with UND on ipy2 and have lots of friends there. But, I will be bringing a few friends to UND. 2 of which played a long time ago. Never with UND though.

I also dislike the 2 stones idea. It will split us too much IMO.

I'll have vacation time on launch if I can. I'll be dling aim. We will need some type of VoIP. I can assist if needed.
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Chance-



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:36 am

I agree that 2 stones would be a bad idea, if anything couldn't certain members/ranks just leave guild tags off?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Undead on IPY2 based out of Cove? Would that be our target area for setting up? I like it, personally, as it's sort of a change of pace for me. Been doing playtesting on Beta as "Grimmald Grubbs".
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Kirawolf92



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:26 am

Yeah they could just not set tags on. No, we were south of Yew. South of the Orc Fort. We chose there because of being close to Yew. And because shame was just on the other side of the mountain.
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:40 am

Okay people, I am done with what I would call the pre-alpha version of the structure.

http://goo.gl/pkggUh

I am not sure if we will use most of it, as the hierarchy is quite wide and will require different people, but, from the other hand, I tried to reflect most UO play styles available so in other words it means everyone will find his/her place in UND which may make us more bigger/stronger than we usually are (again, guild roster has not only to do with the structure, but how much playing hours/work people invest into it, playing just with orcs, and while I respect big orcish guilds, does not add to our ranks and is, in fact, negative, from my standpoint, as people take us for being just a branch of bloodclan and not a standalone clan). Plus IPY3 will have a huge player market at start so if our recruiting marketing strategy works out well we may as well fill it.

Again, this is the alpha version and definitely requires some work on the titles/ranks/definitions.

Basically, the problem I confronted with while making this was the fact that the undead, in its lore, and essence does not require "hierarchy". I mean it is hard to form some sort of social ranks within the undead community as it requires some serious discussions on what exactly is "the undead", what do they do, what is the purpose of the "aftermath existence". Unlike most other guilds in UO (both real, such as the Yew Militia, or static/fictional, such as the Tailors Guild in most cities), the Undead was always something different to me. It is roleplaying in the core, affiliation with other undead. The problem, however, is organization. I mean most players would be bored soon once they find out we are just a pack of "deddiez" seeking nothing but some player killing. I mean they can just join some "Banana Boyz" or any other goon squad out there and do the same thing without the need to follow our rules, customs and language. Obviously, compared to Yew or Orcs with possibility to go higher in ranks/make a name, UND sounds little promising.

I managed to solve this "problem" by attaching the UND to what we call The Necropolis - city of the Undead. It does not matter where will we establish the Necropolis, be it Cove (highly negative, if you ask me, our location should be more remote from the human civilization) or our traditional spot in Yew (North of Yew Orc Fort, or the Clearing of Love), the thing is, it is a system. It is not just a pack of houses, but "our thing".

The Necropolis (see the .pdf) will consists of various castes. The highest place in the hierarchy is Guardian himself http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian. Necropolis stands under Guardians blessing.

Necropolis is the home of the Undead (but not all "undead" on the shard, some freelancing vampires or doubtful RP'ers can mind their own business).

Necropolis is the family with patriarchal system and is ran by the Ancient One - patriarch and the leader of the Undead and The Dark Council.

The Dark Council consists of every Elder from every caste.

Necropolis is divided in different castes to represent every play style and to perform literally every possible operation associated with money making, pvp, roleplaying etc.

In total there are 4 Castes (3 main and one secret), each ran by the caste Elder. Elders rank is written in black under the caste name. Each caste has its own hierarchy. Ranks are portrayed from highest to lowest. The highest the rank the more privileges and respect there is for each member.

1. Temple of Blood

The most important, influential, and scarce caste. Temple of Blood consists of the priests of the Guardian, who hail his name and basically form the ideological life of the Necropolis. Priests are the closest advisers to the Dark Council and the Ancient One. They also teach the unborns/initiates and other members. Priests will keep the storyline, language, customs and everything related to the ideology and culture of the Necropolis. Priests will also deal with recruitment of the new members, at some point.

Priests of the Necropolis have to be highly respected and be de facto independent. They do not conduct business directly with other members of the Undead and only talk to the Ancient One.

Basically, if you feel you are a better RP'er than a PvP'er then this branch is for you. I understand this will probably be the most scarce caste and that is why it will be the most powerful one.  

2. Soul Collectors

The most active and popular caste, as you guessed. This one I divided into the two groups:

a) Dark Trainers

Good fighters/PvP'ers which will train other clan members in order to build a strong power. As you can see there are only two ranks available to the Dark Trainers and these ranks are equal to the similar ranks of the neighboring caste. There are only two positions in the Dark Trainers, the master and his assistants. One has to prove to be a very good fighter in order to belong to this branch.

b) Enforcers of the Necropolis

Most unborns will start here. This will be the most active and popular caste. Basically how it always has been in the Und, except that hierarchy is now strictly defined. The longer you are with the Und, the better you follow the rules, the more you do for the clan will define your place in the hierarchy. The Silencer is the highest position among the ranks of the Enforcers, while the Elder position holds the whole caste and is a part of the Dark Council.

3. Syndicate

The business of the Necropolis. All the craftsmen, resource gatherers, scribes, armorers, and alchemists are of the clan are here. I made this caste to finally allow crafters a decent place in the Necropolis to make us stronger/richer on the guild market. The Syndicate is ruled by the Grandmaster, who takes a seat in the Dark Council. Just like the previous caste I divided Syndicate into two branches:

a) Laboratory of Necropolis

All the scribes and alchemists of the clan are here. And if IPY3 offers anything new in the arcane arts, just in case, these will belong to the laboratory too.
Ran by the Archmagi.

b) The Guild

The simple name is intentional. After all, the Syndicate will operate illegally and all 'official' Britannian trade guilds would never allow our goods/market to operate under their names. Thefore, The Guild is everything not defined by the Laboratory. Tinkers, carpenters, leather workers, tailors, smiths, bowyers, and pvmers are here.

The Syndicate will run the shops (both inside the Necropolis area, and in various places across Britannia, sell goods (both created by the Guild/Laboratory members and ill-gotten), and fence stolen/looted goods.

Whole Syndicate branch will be hidden. All members will have their guild abbreviation off. Basically, the Syndicate is just like a regular trade and pvm guilds, except little will be known of it, as it will be illegal for the most part.

Most of the Necropolis incomes will come from the Syndicate operations. What to do with that vanq katana we just got from that guy? Why not sell it in one of our vendor malls, after all nobody asks where it came from, right?

Note that the Guild ranks do not contain professions or anything related to certain crafts. All it has are the regular ranks more or less related to the guild. It means even non-craft professions can be a part of the Guild, such as the tamers and treasure hunters. Not sure about the bards, as it is still unsure whether the undead can interpret musical sounds, but perhaps there will be place for humans within the Syndicate ranks to conduct money-related business with other people.

Gatherers are the lowest rank in the Syndicate, they are the Unborns. They gather resources (either directly grinding, or getting from others/looking for cheaper, bulk offers). However, even if one is not a lumber/miner, he will still start with the rank of the Gatherer. You do not need a skill to buy/collect/loot reagents, and to shear sheep, right?

Growing in the Syndicate is simple as that, the more money you make for the family, the better business grows, the better position you will have.  

Syndicate members are respected just as other members of the family.

4. Whisperers of Darkness

Little is known about this secret caste. All the Whisperers will also have their guild abbreviation off OR be a part of another caste at the same time.

As you can see the Whisperers are not directly affiliated with the overall Necropolis hierarchy, however, they are a part of it.

If you are more into the stealth type of playing, and are good into taking people out in silence, spying and doing similar shadow-business, then you MIGHT be offered a position among the best in this sphere.

Basically, a good assassin/thief from the Soul Collectors can also secretly be a member of the Whisperers. So if you see your fellow clan member not responding and going somewhere on his own, perhaps he is on the side task for his Whisperer.

Whisperers are the secret assassin order of the Necropolis. Sometimes some tasks have to be performed in shadows. Deadly poison and light armor is what they wear, and you barely hear anything before you lose your life.

Elder Whisperer is the highest position in this caste, however, nobody, except the Ancient One will directly conduct business with him. The next in the hierarchy is the Listener who will, you guessed it, listen to the task of the Whisperer, and will later pass the order to the performer of the Whisperers.

Whisperers will do the spying job for the rival guilds and will perform various other tasks regular enforcers do not do. Most of the time Whisperers will be working away from the Necropolis. Whisperers will also punish those who break the rules of the Necropolis.



All the rank decisions (raising/lowering) will be done by the Dark Council. The Dark Council is the last admission in everything, however, the Ancient One will always have the veto right for every decision. Newborn members will also be initiated by the Dark Council and the ritual will be performed once the commission decides it is time to initiate the unborn into the ranks of the undead. Basically, all the policy, rules, dress code for every caste/branch will be conducted by the Dark Council.


Also, I strongly agree with you guys about the two stones thing. That is why some members of the Undead will be have their abbreviations turned off in case the situation/their business needs it.

Let me know guys what you think about it.
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Kirawolf92



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:28 pm

Sounds good. Just a question. Will their be different subsects. Like dexxers, mages, and archers? Or how will that work? Also is the Ancient One decided or what's up wit that also?

Ya. IMO instead of 2 stones just turn off the tag. I definitely think we should take love. It's where we were on Ipy 2.
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:05 pm

Kirawolf92 wrote:
Sounds good. Just a question. Will their be different subsects. Like dexxers, mages, and archers?? Also is the Ancient One decided or what's up wit that also?
 

Nope, as long as you are interested in soul collecting then you will obviously pick the combat template therefore you are in the soul collecting/fighter caste. Play anything you want, med dexxer, tank mage, parry warrior etc.

I am not sure who is the current Ancient One. I think Nethru is, he is also running these boards.
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Kirawolf92



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:20 pm

Ah okay. Super excited to play again. I'll prolly be active 4 or 5 hours a day. Sometimes more or less depending on work.

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Kirawolf92



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:37 am

Wait, I just remembered that when I was leaving Kraton and the rest were going for cove kingship and stuff. Personally, I like love clearing better.

Here are my opinions on some stuff mentioned in the thread.

I don't like the switching of leaders every few months or so. It sounds like every time we switched UND would be pulled in different directions. IMO it should be the one with the most knowledge, experience, and time.

The reason I think UND wasn't as popular on ipy2 was that we really didn't try to much on recruiting. We posted on the forums and had criers. But, we didn't go out there and reach out. IMO if we went out and had demonstrations maybe we could pique more interest. I don't know just an idea.

On the crafting thing I don't think we should them slaves or anything. From an outside look it looks like we treat them like shit.

Puke green for the unborns for sure. When I was one I worked my ass off to get out of that damn thing. It was my motivation.

I really like the write up spencer did. I really like that caste system. It sounds the most structured.

The idea I had was having one of my characters stationed in Shame. A pk. And become well known. And make people fear to go in there. We can claim it per say. Just an idea. What I want is to make UND infamous and highly known. Claim a huge part of notoriety and souls for the Guardian.
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Spencer

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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:34 am

Please see the updated version of Necropolis structure.

http://goo.gl/erCn8y

I've decided that the original clan idea was too large for UO gameplay. What I mean is every step in hierarchy has to be somewhat different from the previous one as well as being rewarding. Power/reward distribution, otherwise it is just another tag in the guild with nothing behinds its name. Unfortunately, UO is quite limited here regarding power/reward distribution among the guild members, at the same time it's almost unlimited in terms of roleplaying. However, in my opinion, roleplaying is better when it is highly connected with ACTUAL gameplay/guild affairs. Therefore, Necropolis structure should be as 'playable' as possible, so achieving a certain high ranks should actually mean something. Some RP guilds out there have a strict and rewarding hierarchy. It is actually worth getting higher there, why not do the same for UND?

The original .pdf contained quite large structure, many titles, but little idea on how will these titles be different from one another.

The updated version is now more compact, however, it still requires your approval and opinion.

So now, as you can see via the .pdf, Council of Elders is now directly connected to Ancient One, which even more outlines His highest position in the Necropolis. As stated before, Council of Elders (prev. Dark Council) consists of every Elder from every Caste.

The System of Necropolis is divided into 3 main castes, which are:

The Blood Temple (Invitation only, requires highest undead RP skills)

Souls Collectors (the most active, liquid and major caste)

The Syndicate (for any non-combat/trade/pvm members of the clan)


The first position after the caste is its Elder.

Temple of Blood may only consist of the High Priest (the only position) and Priests of the Guardian. See the first post for more information on this and other castes.

Basically there can only be one Elder position in every branch and several positions for every other, lower rank.

As you can see, compared to the initial version the Soul Collectors caste has been reduced with only 3 main ranks available besides the Elder rank. Every new member will start as an Unborn and after being initiated in the ranks of the undead he will become a full undead minion. Knight (similar to Grunt in BC) is very high position among the minions and is basically the 2nd rank in the hierarchy after Elder.

As you can see there's a blank branch between the Elder and the Knight ranks of the Soul Collectors. This is the possibility for the knight to start his own 'sect', which has to be approved by the Elder Council and will still be a part of the Necropolis and loyal to the Elder, however, it will be particular knights (in case he/she wishes to create one) personal sect with his own minions/houses/colors/etc. loyal to their Knight.

The Syndicate remains basically the same as initially described in my first post.

So power distribution still has to be decided on and approved by current Elders, however, my idea is that Unborns will have to wear a robe of particular color (be it puke green, or dark grey etc.), then Undead Minions will also have some dress code restrictions/limitations while still being way more flexible than Unborns. Perhaps the color restriction. Knights will be able to wear whatever they want and what color they want as long as the color is not limited to Elders only. Aside from the obvious rank position (which implies more respect towards the high ranked members) the Knight will also have the possibility to have a house in Necropolis as well as create his own sect. All other houses will belong to Necropolis only (main keep, unborn house, minion armory, Necropolis shop etc.) and Elder houses. Knights will also be responsible for teaching and moderating unborns and newly initiated members.
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Ajar Deathstrike



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:42 pm

While I like some of the structure, I'm used to a much stricter caste system.



Love that the Unborn is basically the same, except Puke green robes (was red or dark grey on Catskills).


There were caste/class restrictions and rank trees within those classes whereas this seems a bit more open. I enjoyed it to be honest, as a pure archer taking down a tank mage by switching between Axe and Bow when needed, straight up outplaying them. It was more rewarding

Obviously UND has changed a ton since we were 100+ active on Catskills, and you guys have been holding the fort for years now, so I support whatever you guys have proposed. I probably just need to read through it some more when im not in a rush!

Also a cool screenshot you guys might like:

Here's an old classic of me promoting Ridirich to Ancient one in 2001-02, on top of the original Undead Keep in the original Necropolis:


http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

We had a ton of GM support. Here's to living some glory days together again!
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Kraton



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PostSubject: Re: Inactiviy of UND. Thoughts. IPY3 roll call.   Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:47 pm

wow, well I have to say that this is not something I am use to seeing on these forums.... Experienced people. It is good to see some old blood back here on the forums, thought these things were dead... Smile

Aside from what you guys have written on here I wouldn't mind getting the contact info for anyone of you guys who is serious about making big things happen for the und on IPY3.

I hope you have skype however if not we can figure something else out. I have my skype info posted but for the sake of saving you some extra clicks here it is again: anthony_nuber

Hope to hear from you guys,

_________________
Kraton, Akantis and Drekk.

Every demon wants his pound of flesh.
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